002: Designing High Ticket Programs With Daven Michaels

Daven Michaels is the New York Times bestselling author of “Outsource Smart.” He is the founder of both 123Employee and The Virtual Entrepreneurs Association.

I’m opening up my private vault of unreleased interviews to kick off this podcast while I’m recording new episodes. This interview with Daven was recorded in 2016.



Sterling Valentine: We have Daven Michaels with us, New York Times Bestselling Author and CEO of 123Employee, and just a busy guy. Daven, great to have you.

Daven Michaels: Thanks for having me, Sterling. How are you doing?

Sterling Valentine: It’s good to see you again, man.

Daven Michaels: Absolutely.

Sterling Valentine: I met Daven at one of Ken McArthur’s events, and he always brings an amazing presentation. Actually, he is the first guy I’ve ever seen do a live Skype with one of his employees during his presentation, who not only talks to the audience but actually does work for one of the audience members. It’s phenomenal. So if you get a chance to see Daven, check him out because he’s an innovator.

Daven Michaels: Thanks, buddy, I appreciate that.

Sterling Valentine: Yeah, so I know that Daven does mastermind groups, as well as live events, so he’s definitely got more stuff than we’re going to be able to actually touch on. So I’m going to trust him, to really focus this on the people who are trying to move into premium pricing and products and do things like the mastermind groups, and all that kind of stuff. So basically, you left the music business, which is a whole other conversation we could have if we had extra two hours, but first the music business, you got into the information marketing business, how did you start monetizing originally? What was your first foray and offer in the business?

Daven Michaels: Yeah, well actually, Sterling, when we first got started, we really never got into the information business, well, I guess we are in the information marketing business, but that’s not how it started. We actually did it in reverse. So what happened was, about a decade ago, nine years ago to be exact, we started our outsourcing company, which is 123Employee, and today we have hundreds and hundreds of employees at our centers. We have three centers in the Philippines, and we work with entrepreneurs all over the globe, some of the biggest thought leaders on the planet. We do all their busy work in their business from internet marketing, all the way to call center services. And when we originally started that business, our sweet spot was working with entrepreneurs. Now today, we still work with entrepreneurs and solopreneurs, but we are also starting to work with medium-sized businesses as well.

But when we started that business almost a decade ago, entrepreneurs knew nothing about outsourcing for themselves. They never thought that they even needed help in their business. I mean, they knew they were buried, but they didn’t think of outsourcing, and only the big companies were outsourcing like American Express and the big travel companies. And so we realized pretty early on that if we wanted to have a market, we would have to figure out some way to create that market, and we decided to adopt an educational model. And so we started creating info products. I started writing books, eventually became a New York Times bestseller. We started doing events all over the globe, and I started speaking on stages. And what happened was we began to educate our prospects, and we turned them into clients. And that was our early model, and we never really departed from that model.

So today, everything we do sells into 123Employee. So we do sell info products, but they usually come bundled with our services. We are now getting into the software business, and we are developing software programs that come with a virtual assistant to run it for them. And when we sell things at our events, it comes with a VA, and everything, even our books lead into our services. So that’s how we got into the info-marketing space almost a decade ago.

Sterling Valentine: And it’s a testament to the true fact that if you ask a room full of people who’s in the marketing business, really everybody needs to raise their hands these days.

Daven Michaels: Absolutely.

Sterling Valentine: Because we have to, especially with a complex sale, and I don’t think outsourcing is that complex, but to some people, if they haven’t yet gotten their mind around it, there’s an educational component, isn’t there?  

Daven Michaels: Yeah, big time.

Sterling Valentine: So you’re kind of in the information marketing space, just to make it.

Daven Michaels: Yeah, before we started educating our market, literally, people come up to us all the time and say, oh my gosh, I love what you guys are doing, and when the time is right, I’m going to come work with you. And now today they just say well, how can we work with you? And that’s really because of all the education that we put in place. And it took a long time to make that shift, but yeah, and you see so many businesses, moving into that information space because today you can’t really hard-sell your customers or your prospects, so a better way’s probably by educating them or empowering them, until such time as they become a client, you know?

Sterling Valentine: That’s awesome. So you kind of backed into it and now, you’ve obviously gotten the information side of the business, if we can call it that. It’s got its own whole life on its own. So tell me about the mastery weekends that you’ve got, the retreats, and then the mastermind groups. Walk us along the menu and give us a sense of what are the things that we could purchase and interact with you on at a high level. You know, your high ticket stuff.

Daven Michaels: Yeah, well, our progression in the info-marketing space, so first we started with a book and that book kind of changed everything. I got rid of probably 100,000 copies, by today maybe hundreds, and that really educated the marketplace and brought people in. Then I started speaking on stages, and that’s where we began to go from marketing to one, like so many businesses do, to marketing to many, like so many information marketing businesses do. So every time I would open my mouth on stage, I’d be talking to a lot of people. Then we started doing webinars, the same thing. And today, the only time I open my mouth is when I’m talking to lots and lots of people, and that’s how we’ve gotten leverage on our business, and we’ve broadened exponentially.

So what happened was, after we started speaking on stages for a while and that was growing, we were like what’s next? And so we started doing webinars and were like, what’s next? And what seemed like the next logical step was for us to do our own events, events where people could come, get educated, but also become clients. And at those events we are like, okay, well we know we want to sell our outsourcing services, but what else do we have to offer? Well, I have almost three decades of business experience. I’ve had a lot of success over the years. So we were like, hey, I bet people would like coaching. And so we began our foray into high ticket services and programs. And so we initially created what we called a mastermind, but the true reality is it’s a coaching program, and there’s a big distinction. It’s very interesting, in the mastermind space, and I know we’re talking about high ticket programs and coaching programs, and quite often, those are called masterminds, right? But the reality is, there’s a lot of different things that are called masterminds, right? So some people have a mastermind, maybe there are 10 to 20 people in the room, and they’re working on each other’s business, I would call that a true mastermind.

And by the way, I have no problem calling whatever you want to call a mastermind…

Sterling Valentine: Right, but it is a loose term, we have to acknowledge, it’s being applied to a lot of things.

Daven Michaels: Yeah, and so I think it’s important that we explain the nuances and the differences so that people know what the heck we’re talking about, right? So I’m sure you’d probably agree with me that a true mastermind is usually limited to about 10 to 20 people, and it’s a bunch of people, it could be in a lot of different formats, but they’re all kind of working on each other’s businesses, right?

Sterling Valentine: Agreed.

Daven Michaels: Agreed. And then some people will do small events, maybe 40, 60, 80, 100 people, and they’ll call that a mastermind. And I get it, I mean they are calling it kind of a high-level event, but it’s truly not a mastermind, that’s an event. I believe that anything over about 20 is an event. There’s no way that you can have that kind of mastermind situation in a bigger event. There are some exceptions to that rule, but for the most part, that’s the case, okay? And then finally there’s coaching. So there’s a lot of high-level coaching programs, expensive, great coaching that is also called a mastermind. Right?

Sterling Valentine: And I’ve seen one-on-one coaching that they’ve literally called a mastermind.

Daven Michaels: Yeah, and you know, I think that’s fine too. I mean, it doesn’t really matter, but I just want to make it clear that in my mind, if your event’s too big, it’s not truly a mastermind, you can call it whatever you want, I don’t care, but it truly isn’t. And if you are the epicenter of that mastermind, if it revolves around you and your mouth, your words, your brain, then it’s not a mastermind either. It’s really a coaching program, and that’s cool. 

So when we first started doing high ticket, we had what we called masterminds, but they really were coaching programs because 90% of the coaching came from myself and our VP Beejal. So we developed those programs, and we started selling them at about $19,000 was the first one, and then from there, we expanded it. We had a $25,000 program, and we had a $65,000 program. 

And what evolved from that was I really loved doing the $25,000 program, and I ended up really not liking doing the $65,000 program. I didn’t like that incredibly high level of expectation because you’re charging a lot of money, there’s a lot you need to deliver at $65,000 in my opinion, and I think there are a lot of people who deliver very little for $65,000, but I don’t even know how you do that, because if people are going to give you almost $100,000, there’s an expectation there. And I really didn’t enjoy delivering that program, and since then, we’ve actually dramatically cut down the prices of our programs.

So what we did is that went on for about five years, except for when we were doing the $65,000 program, and we only did that for about a year or so, and then I just X’ed out that program. So those programs continued for quite a while until last year. And then what happened was within these masterminds that we were doing, well they were really coaching, there’s the distinction, but what happened is, there were two types of people in those groups. One were what I call the up-and-comers, they’ve got solid businesses, and they’re on a course and a path to really take it to the next level, and then the other was what I would call the ballers, okay? They’ve got big businesses. You don’t have to push them to do anything. They’re self-starters. You tell them what to do, they leave and go make a lot of money. And we had them all in the same group, and for years actually, I thought, I think we need to split these guys up. Our masterminds are getting pretty big, and why don’t we split them up and let the ballers’ ball and let the up-and-comers help each other out?

So last year we did that, we split them off, and we created two programs. So we created the Beyond Results Program, and that’s for our up-and-comers, and it’s a very affordable mastermind, well, it’s not a mastermind, it’s a coaching program. It’s a very affordable coaching program. We keep it to very small groups, and what we do is we really break up the year into 90-day sprints. And so what happens is, every 90 days they come into a meeting room with us, we hold it in a hotel, and we work on each other’s businesses, we look at what the last 90 days yielded, what worked, what didn’t work, we create the next 90-day plan, and then we present it to the group. The group makes their tweaks, and then they go off, do the next 90 days, we come back together 90 days later, we rinse and repeat.

And it’s a great program for people that are just not getting to where they want to go. And so what we would find is we’d have so many people come to see me speak somewhere and tell us about everything they’re doing. We’d see them a year later, and they hadn’t got anywhere, and it’s just because they couldn’t put everything into actionable steps and just follow through with it. So that’s why we created that program, and it’s doing quite well. And then we split off the ballers, and we put them in their own program, and that’s called Mastery Retreats. And so our VP Beejal Parmar handles about 90% of everything that happens at the Beyond Results program, and I handle about 95% of everything that happens at Mastery Retreats, and Mastery Retreats is much more intimate. We keep it locked down to 20 people even though we have multiple groups, and then they actually meet here in my Vegas home, which is where I’m at right now.

And it’s some of the who’s who in the business world, some of the who’s who in the marketing world, and it’s where we come together and really work on each other’s businesses to take it to a whole other level. And it’s very exciting because these are big boys and girls, with big egos, but they all check them at the door, in their total commitment to help each other out in their business. And I love it. I find it so rewarding and so much fun, and it’s one of the funnest things I do in my business.

Sterling Valentine: So when we started off at the $19,000 price point, first of all, I know that some of the folks have heard that and are still stuck on that line with the sticker shock. You know one man’s ceiling is another man’s floor. So to some, that’s high, and to some, that’s low.

Daven Michaels: Yeah, let me address that for just a moment real quick. So I will tell you, when we first came up with our first high ticket program, it was that $19,000 program, and we sold it at our L.A. event, and what happened was our VP Beejal Parmar, and I were working on the curriculum for this event. It was our first event we’d ever done. And there was tremendous sacrifice, we worked day and night on the curriculum. Well, what happened was during the day we were running our company, but in the evenings we worked on the curriculum. And so, as a result, we were working day and night, and there was a lot of sacrifice, so much so we didn’t see our spouses during that time. My spouse was my girlfriend Liz, and we actually broke up over the whole thing, and then later we got back together, which was great, but tremendous sacrifice.

And I remember the night before the event, Beejal and I were doing kind of the last wrap-up on the curriculum, and we had a great program, but I remember turning to Beejal, and I said, Bee, who the heck is going to buy this? And he’s like, I don’t know, I have no idea. Because we didn’t even believe that people were going to pay $20,000 a year to hang out with us, we just knew that other people had done that. And that was our belief system. 

It’s kind of like this, like about six months ago, I jumped out of an airplane in Dubai, ok?

Sterling Valentine: With a parachute ladies and gentlemen, just to be clear…

Daven Michaels: Yes, with a parachute, yes. And all logic says that I could die, right? I mean, I’m jumping out of an airplane. But what I know is that millions of people have jumped out of airplanes and didn’t die, and the odds of me dying was pretty unlikely, and so I just gave it a shot. And that was kind of what happened when we first sold our first high ticket. We didn’t really have that belief that people are willing to pay that much money for access to us, and that was just our own belief system. And of course, they were willing to pay that and about three or four times that.

Sterling Valentine: And maybe more.

Daven Michaels: And if we asked for more, they’d probably give us that money, too. And you know, the reality is if you’re watching this right now, you wouldn’t even be on here if you didn’t think that you marketed and sold something of high value. And I guarantee you the only roadblock between you asking for that kind of money, and just putting out your hand and taking it, it’s your head. And so you just have to get past that and give it a shot. If what you sell is incredibly valuable, people will pay you for it, because it’s a shortcut. I mean, I will gladly pay somebody 20 grand to teach me something that’s going to make me hundreds, you know? It’s a bargain for me. My time is incredibly valuable. I’d rather pay the money than figure it out myself.

Sterling Valentine: For sure. Well, how did we establish that particular price point, and how did we establish what the deliverables were for that? How did you say, two grand, five grand, twenty grand, eighty grand? But how do you decide on a price point? And then for that size cup, what do we fill it with? How did you come up with that? And what were your criteria to apply? Because really that’s what everybody is at, they’re saying, okay, so you’re just basically, guys, you’re just telling me to pick a number and then pick up a bunch of stuff and say, this bag of stuff is this number. And it’s kind of, I mean, let’s call it out and be honest. It’s kind of an inexact science.

Daven Michaels: It’s arbitrary…

Sterling Valentine: Are you saying I should just call it the Joe Blow mastermind group and how many things, what do I give you? The fear of the nebulousness of it, the vagueness of it kind of throws people off, I think. Doesn’t it?

Daven Michaels: Yeah, and I have no clue on the pricing thing, but I’ll tell you this, what happened was we wanted to charge $25,000 or I think a lot of people were telling us to charge $25,000, we just were not comfortable with $25,000, it just scared us. So then we were like, okay, we’ll charge $20,000 and then I think we did $18,997 or $19,997, just because it sounded less than $20,000. I mean, that’s kind of the reality. But I think a better, more in-depth question, though, here is what do you include in the program? What is $20,000 value? I think it really depends on so many factors. I mean, it really depends on what the promise of your mastermind is. I’ll give you an example. 

I love the real estate guys. Now, I know a lot of disenfranchised real estate guys, but all these real estate marketers, they charge on average $25,000 or $30,000, some charge a lot more, some charge a little bit less, but for them, it’s such an easy sale because they say, look, give me $30,000, and I’m going to show you how to buy your first house, you know, and everybody wants to own a house and $30,000? Okay, that’s worth it. And they’ll even have guarantees like, hey, look, if you follow what I do, and you don’t buy your first house, I’ll give you all your money back, because why not? I mean, it’s a no brainer. If they do follow through, they will get a house. So, you know, some businesses, it’s very easy to measure, what they’re going to get. Our business was a lot less easy to sort of show what they’re going to get.

So ours, the way our business worked, it was all about taking your business to the next level. So if you want us to come in and show you how to several times your business, that kind of a thing, and so it’s a lot less measurable than getting a house or something like that, right? And other people have businesses where it’s even harder to show the ROI. You know, there are people in the personal development space where that’s like a whole different animal.

Sterling Valentine: How do you measure that?

Daven Michaels: Yeah, how do you measure that? So I’d give you some guidelines. The first one is, people are buying your mastermind for you. So they want access to you. So you definitely want to make sure your program gives them access to you, that’s important. In our programs, our programs are built quarterly. So there’s always one of our events quarterly, so our Beyond Results program meets quarterly. Our Mastery Retreats meets quarterly at my house. And the reason we do quarterly is I honestly think quarterly is a little too much because you’re going to give people instruction and training and coaching and then you’re going to want them to go off and implement it. And I don’t even think 90 days is always enough time to implement because there are so many things going on. I think three times a year is better. But I’ll tell you why we do quarterly, and that’s because we know that not everyone’s going to be able to make every meeting.

Sterling Valentine: You’re giving them more options to show up in case they missed one.

Daven Michaels: Yeah, exactly. So if we do it quarterly, we know that the average show up rate will be three times a year. If we did it three times a year and they showed up twice at two times a year, they might be thinking, is it really worth twice a year for $15,000?

Sterling Valentine: It’s coverage that you’re giving them.

Daven Michaels: Exactly, and our Mastery Retreats is $15,000, and so we want to make sure that they have enough time to come and gain ROI and what have you. Although Mastery Retreats, they get ROI the first time they come, almost always, so it’s pretty cool. But yeah, they’re going to want access to you, and I think it’s a good idea to not just give them access when you’re in the room with them, but have some way for them to communicate with you beyond the event. So, for example, you know, we have people come to the Mastery Retreats quarterly, Beyond Results quarterly, but the Beyond Results group, monthly we jump on a conference call and see how everybody’s doing, and we do Q&A, and so on and so forth. And with Mastery Retreats, we have kind of like a group, kind of a check-in call once a month as well. Also, quite often in these programs, you know, you would think that if you’re charging somebody a lot of money, that they’re going to take it seriously and they’re going to implement what you tell them, and nope, even if you charge them $20,000, $30,000, they’re still not going to do what you tell them when they’re supposed to. So a component that works really well is adding in either an accountability partner or an accountability coach or an actual coach, and that’s what we do.

For Mastery Retreats, we don’t have to do that because those guys just take action. You just give them the info, and they’d go off and do it. But for Beyond Results, we actually include our master coach, Stephanie Graziano, and she’s in touch with them on a weekly basis, coaching them and kind of making sure that they’re following through in the process, and being there for them, so that’s an important component as well. And then beyond that, we always throw in a few bonuses here and there.

Well, not with Mastery Retreats, that’s pretty pure, and simple. But yeah, I think those are the most important components. Its access, access beyond the events, some sort of coaching or accountability, and some hand-holding, unless you’re at a super high level event, and beyond that, that’s about it. There are some events that are very experiential, so, you know, then you add in field trips and dune buggy racing and jumping out of planes, which is totally awesome too.

Sterling Valentine: Well, you make sure that you do the jumping out of planes on the last day just in case.

Daven Michaels: Just in case…

Sterling Valentine: If we were to decide, you know, we’re listening, and we say okay, you got me, I think I’ll do something. What are the criteria, Daven, that we would apply to decide which high ticket arena, area, that we would foray into first? You know, do I do high ticket coaching first? Do I do a high ticket information product? Should I start my own mastermind group? In your opinion, imagine somebody’s got a regular business, that it’s up and running, but they haven’t yet dipped their toe in the pool of the VIP section. Where would you suggest they go, and how would they decide that for themselves? What’s the criteria to apply?

Daven Michaels: I think it really depends on what you feel would be of most value to your tribe. And if you don’t know, you definitely want to survey your tribe. You can quiz them, survey them, and I think that’s critical because you may think you know what they need or want, and it may have nothing to do with what they really need or want. For us, we felt when we started our programs, we did a lot of surveying of our people and what we learned about our audience is that they were successful business people, they wanted to take their business to the next level, but their challenge in their businesses was generally bridging the offline and online gap. So they had successful companies, but they weren’t really able to like kind of create these online funnels and do a lot of marketing online, they weren’t buying traffic, and they wanted to bridge that, and they saw us as that bridge. And so that’s how the coaching program started.

We had lots of businesses on our list that ranged from like anywhere from about $100,000 to $500,000 up into the few million dollar range, maybe $5,000,000 on the very high end, and probably with more in the $2,000,000 million and below range. And so with that in mind, we didn’t feel like they were quite ready for a true mastermind. We felt it was more of a coaching program. And so that’s what we did. When we started Mastery Retreats, we started with my friends. You know, all my super high-level friends that were kind of, you know, had big businesses like I did, and that’s how the Mastery Retreats got started. Those guys, we didn’t have anything to coach them on, they were peers. And so with those guys, it made sense to have a mastermind, where people had a true mastermind where people could trade ideas. So you really have to look at what are the needs and wants of the group. Remember people won’t buy a need, they’ll buy a want. So probably the best way to figure that out is probably is to survey your tribe and find out what they really want.

Sterling Valentine: And it’s a good moment to stop and point out that access to other people in and of itself is a deliverable, right?

Daven Michaels: It is.

Sterling Valentine: I mean, you know the fact that if I’m in a study group and I can talk to many other students, hey, what’s your answer to that question? Did you understand what he said the last time? That kind of access to other people, even if it’s unfiltered and unstructured, is very desirable to people, isn’t it?

Daven Michaels: It is, I would say in Mastery Retreats, half of our people, maybe 40% of our people literally join for access. They just, they know who’s in the room, and they’re like, holy moly, I know how much money I’m going to make by having those relationships in my life. Those are guys that normally I might not have access to, and to have them all for a weekend to myself, in an environment where we’re just kind of letting our hair loose and just kind of getting to know each other, is just incredibly valuable.

Sterling Valentine: You know that old saying, I’m sure you’ve heard it, that most of the business that’s done at a seminar is done in the real room, in the hallway, right. That’s the real room that you should be in, right? And I’ve gone to events where I was there two, three days, but never set foot in the main room, peek your head in the door for a second, but other than that, I’m out here where the action is, right?

Daven Michaels: Every year, I’ll get tickets for T & C, and I spend the entire time in the hallway, and then I watch the videos afterward.

Sterling Valentine: And let everybody know what T & C is.

Daven Michaels: TNC is Traffic and Conversion, Perry and Ryan…

Sterling Valentine: In California, that’s right. And my recommendation, I’d love to hear what you think, is that in the beginning, all you’ve got is time. If you don’t have a lot of clientele, or if you don’t have a lot of high ticket clientele, then you can always trade your time for dollars and you can always start where you’re at, which is to get on the phone with people, in a coaching program, and just charge them high ticket. I think that’s the quickest at-hand way to monetize, right? To be able to just do individual coaching program if you get enough people, then maybe move up to a mastermind kind of group, or even a group coaching program without the mastermind component. 

Daven Michaels: Yeah, I totally agree with you. I mean, it’s just you work your way up to it. What I would say though, is that, you know, don’t underprice your program. Now, these days, I run my programs on the lower side. So I mean, I’ve just been totally transparent. What we used to charge $25,000 for, we’ve made some tweaks to it to make it happen, but literally, we charge $10,000 for that. I mean, it’s very affordable. And then Mastery Retreats is $15,000, which I still think is incredibly affordable for what you get. I know other people charge $30,000 for that all day long. And I try to make my programs really affordable. I want people to be able to show up at one event, make enough ROI in that one event to never have to worry about it again for the next year. And that’s really my goal. Having said that, though, people are going to want access you. So they’re going to want your incredibly valuable time. And whether you realize it now or not, your time is really finite. And so, if you’re going to be giving up your valuable time, your life that you’ll never get back again, you better price it to a level where you feel like it’s a fair trade.

For me, I know minimum my time’s worth a couple of thousand bucks an hour. So if I can’t generate that in this endeavor, then it really doesn’t make sense for me to do it, except for the fact that I’m very passionate about it. But still, I want to be paid because it’s my time, and I can’t get that back. I understand when you’re first getting started, it’s a little hard to ask for a lot of money, but don’t ask for too little because that’s just a trap. You don’t want to make a commitment to somebody to work with them for the next year in their business and price it so low that you’re really trapped into it. Make sure that you’re really getting paid well for your time because you have to really do that for you because you’re not going to get that time back.

Sterling Valentine: You price it too low, people say it must not be worth that much. So you may not even have that problem of getting to the point where you’ve undercharged for your time, because nobody’s going to buy it, because they’ll say, how valuable can it be if it’s not that expensive?

Daven Michaels: Yeah, exactly. If you make it really cheap, it will be perceived as having low value.

Sterling Valentine: Or at least, you know, say this is usually my $50,000 program, but because we’re doing a Beta pre-roll-out, we’re going to charge only $15,000 or something, you know, at least qualify it, ethically, of course, but qualify it.

Daven Michaels: Sure, agreed.

Sterling Valentine: So is there anything in the high ticket space that we didn’t cover that you would want to talk about? I know you’ve got a lot of experience, so did we miss anything that might be valuable to share?

Daven Michaels: Yeah, one thing you may want to look at is how you’re going to sell that program. You know, there’s a lot of ways to sell high ticket. You know, you can sell from a webinar, you can sell from a consultative close, you could sell from an event, you can sell to your personal contacts, you can sell through an email to your list. You know, you can sell it, you can have a sales team that sells it for you. You can have a back of the room team that sells it for you. So there’s a lot of different ways to sell those programs. And you know, I don’t know if we even have enough time to kind of breakthrough those and kind of talk about them, but make sure that you really are mindful at least and spend some time thinking about, you know, once you’ve created this great program, you’ve priced it to a level that you feel is fair, how are you going to sell it? So you really need to kind of sit down, think about it, and think about the best way to sell that program, if that makes sense.

Sterling Valentine: Yeah, and that ties into the price point as well. I mean, you know, if you’re going to sell a $60,000 program, is that something that you necessarily want to sell during a webinar or is it better from the stage, or at a live event, or a one-on-one consultatively, right?

Daven Michaels:  Yeah, absolutely. A lot to consider.

Sterling Valentine: A lot to consider, so I think we’re going leave this point here to be our stopping point, and I’ll ask you what is your final piece of advice for those who are looking to move into high ticket premium pricing and products for premium profits in their business? What’s Daven’s final piece of advice?

Daven Michaels: Probably the same advice that many of your interviewees are sharing, and that is, if you’re thinking about it, just do it because the only thing that’s really keeping you here and from being to here is really this, right? So, you know, people will pay a lot of money, to have that knowledge that you have, and to have you coach them, and for them, it may not be a lot of money. You know, like I was saying when we started this interview, I’d gladly pay $20,000 to somebody that will make me hundreds. I wouldn’t even think about it. I wouldn’t even flinch. I’d consider that cheap. So you may be thinking that your program might be expensive for people and I guarantee you, there are other people that think your program is cheap. So get out there and do it, make it happen.

Sterling Valentine: So it’s Daven Michaels ladies and gentlemen, Daven, thank you for your time. Where can we find out more about you?

Daven Michaels: My pleasure. Gosh, I suppose you can go to DavenMichaels.com

Sterling Valentine: And of course “123Employee” as well.

Daven Michaels: And MasteryRetreats.com.

Sterling Valentine: All roads lead to Rome.

Daven Michaels: Yeah, just go to DavenMichaels.com, it’ll take you wherever you want to go.

Sterling Valentine: So Daven, I look forward to seeing you at one of Ken McArthur’s great events real soon.

Daven Michaels: Sounds great, Sterling, thanks for having me.

Sterling Valentine: Thanks for being here. 

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